From - Fri Mar 22 13:45:37 1996 From: estark@mizar.usc.edu (Eric B. Stark) Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic Subject: Re: Taking my guitar on the plane Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 14:11:11 -0800 In article , jerubens@midway.uchicago.edu wrote: > I'm going abroad for a year and want to take my guitar with me. > For those who have taken theirs on the plane before: > 1- will it fit in an overhead bin so I can take it carry-on? (i've got a hard > case, if that makes any difference). I'm not so worried about the > transatlantic 747 but I'll probably be on a 737/757 on my first leg... > 2 - if it won't fit carry on and I must (gasp) send it through as > checked baggage, will they make me sign a release so that they're not > liable for any damage? If so, i'd rather pay the money to ship it UPS or > something.. > > Lastly, is there anything else I should do (removing the strings etc) > to help reduce the stress of transport? > > Any comments/experiences welcome. I have taken my guitar on airplanes almost every other weekend for the past three years. A guitar will fit in the overhead on a 737, 747, 757, 767, and an A320 On older L-1011's, guitars won't fit, but if you are polite the flight attendents will be more than glad to store your guitar in the galley area, safe from harm. If you absolutly have to check your guitar, i.e., you arrive late for the plane and there is no room in the overheads, have the flight attendent gate check it and make it _Claim at Gate_ they will hand carry your guitar to the baggage compartment and at the end of the flight will hand carry to the door of the plane where it will be waiting for you. This avoids the conveyor belt at baggage claim which is where most of the dammage can occur. I hope this was helpful. I have flown 80,000 miles in the last three years with my guitar and have had no trouble. One last hint, some flight attendents may tell you that your guitar won't fit. Tell them politly that it will. Most are willing to take your word for it as long as you are polite. Politeness is the key, along with arriving early for your flight. Good Luck, -Eric ============================================= Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 16:55:22 -0400 From: Tom Loredo To: folk_music@nysernet.org Subject: Guitars and airplanes Message-ID: [Alan sez: Tom copied me on his private reply to David Broida, but I thought it contained so much good info that I should share it with all of the guitar players on the list (and, at the same time, see that it makes its way into the digest archive for the benefit of future searchers.)] Hi David- Your plane/guitar question is a FAQ on the rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic newsgroup; it seems to come up every month and produce a thread of varied responses. You should probably post your query there if you want a comprehensive set of answers. It may be dealt with in the RMMGA FAQ document, but I don't think any answer there would be very comprehensive. You can find it by poking around my acoustic guitar pages at: http://astrosun.tn.cornell.edu/staff/loredo/ag/ My understanding is that the official "rules" of most, if not all, airlines require that something the size of a guitar be checked, and that you sign a damage waiver acknowledging that it is "improperly packed" so that the airline is not responsible if it is damaged. For keyboards and electronic equipment, you can buy an ATA (Air Travel Assocn, or something like that) certified case; if you use this, the airlines have to accept the item as properly packed. But there are no ATA certified cases for guitars or other stringed instruments. Also, airlines will not insure guitars for damage as far as I know, though your guitar may be covered by some other policy you may have. Renters or homeowners policies may cover you if you do not play professionally. If you *do* play professionally, you probably should find yourself instrument insurance anyway. If your regular insurance agent doesn't offer it, shop around. Also, musicians' unions often offer such insurance to members at a discount. In practice, the rules are often overlooked. If you check your guitar, you may well not be asked to sign a waiver. I'm not sure if this would make the airline culpable if the instrument is damaged, though. More importantly, many airlines will let you bring your guitar on board and put it in the overhead compartment (if it fits) or the garment bag closet (if it has one, and if there is room for a guitar there). Airlines vary on whether they allow this (eg., Aer Lingus has been criticized lately for uniformly forbidding guitars in the passenger cabin). Even on those airlines where folks have reported successfully carrying on their guitar, your ability to do it seems to depend on how full the flight is, and somewhat on the whims of the flight attendants. Folks on RMMGA report the most success when they show up at the gate *early*, and talk about the situation *politely* with the flight attendants beforehand. You may want to check with your travel agent about the plane your flight is on. Adrian Legg has noted that the new large jet plane, coming to dominate overseas flights in particular (is this the 777?), has overheads that are too small to hold a guitar. L1011s have also been mentioned as having too-small overheads. Nice flight attendants have been known to hold your guitar for you in the galley area in such cases, but I don't know that I'd want to count on this happening. Many guitarists report frequently "gate checking" their guitars; in fact, this seems to be the most often cited method of air travel with a guitar in the RMMGA newsgroup. This means you take the guitar to the gate, and the flight attendants take it down to the cargo hold. At the other end of the flight, it is brought up for you to pick up at the gate. It suffers whatever abuse luggage in the hold might suffer, but at least it doesn't go through the airport baggage handling system. I'm not sure how well this works if you are on a flight with connections; waiting for a gate-checked guitar could make you late for your next flight. Finally, there are two expensive options. Some airlines will let you purchase a seat for your instrument (occassionally at a reduced price). Or you can buy a very good case. The ones the pros use are Calton cases and Mark Leaf cases. One of either will set you back about $500, but they are rumored to be built like a tank. Many pros regularly check their guitars in these cases. I believe both Calton and Mark Leaf will repair any cracks the case ever suffers for free. I've heard occassional reports of the case cracking, but never of a guitar damaged in one of these cases. The Calton and Mark Leaf contact info is as follows: Calton Cases 4215 Brandon St. SE Bay 3 Calgary, Alberta T2G 4A7 Canada Mark Leaf Cases 322 N. Ash McPherson, KS 67460 I believe they will sell direct, but that they prefer to sell through local dealers. Of course, even in one of these cases, the airline could *lose* your guitar. They'll usually find it eventually---but maybe after your gig! If it's permanently lost, they are responsible for it no matter how it was packed, although they may have a low maximum liability. If you are worried about this, you could consider sending your gear a day or so ahead by UPS 2nd day air (around $50) or FedEx. Some folks apparently actually do this. Of course, your guitar is going on an airplane in this case! But that's how most guitars arrive at your local store, anyway---by UPS. If you go this route, you may want to ask at your local music store for a cardboard box for shipping a guitar. Some stores have a bunch laying around from recent arrivals, and will give them to you for free. Boxes that Taylor guitars come in are quite good. These boxes hold a guitar in its own hard case. Whenever you take your guitar with you, it's a good idea to loosen the strings, and to pack any empty areas with towels or socks or whatever (a little extra baggage space!). You don't want the guitar to have any freedom of movement. The strings should be loosened, not because it's bad for the instrument to have full tension on it during flight, and not because the tension makes it more prone to damage, but because if something bad *does* happen, having 100lbs of tension across the guitar is likely to make that bad thing worse. Also, you should have your name and contact info somewhere *inside* the case, so that it can be identified as yours if it gets lost and outer baggage tags are ripped off. You can just put a piece of paper with your info on it in the case compartment. While you're at it, remove everything else from that compartment; a stray capo or slide or stringwinder that escapes from the compartment during flight will wreak havoc on your instrument! Finally, you may want to put duct tape over the latches, to prevent them from being accidentally flipped open. I also wrap the case with a couple nylon straps, so that even if the latches open, the case will stay closed. Well, I hope this helps. I have only limited experience in this regard (the few times I've flown with a guitar, I've taken my *cheap* guitar, and it's survived fine in my $69 hard case; although it was once lost for a few days, the case has taken quite a beating, and the tape over the latches frequently gets pretty chewed up!). Other RMMGA readers may have more insight to offer. Good luck! -Tom Loredo =============================== Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 14:05:09 -0400 From: kamerer@ksu.ksu.edu (David Kamerer) To: folk_music@nysernet.org Subject: guitars and flying Message-ID: Sender: kamerer@ksu.ksu.edu (David Kamerer) Subject: guitars and flying I'd like to add just a bit to Tom Loredo's excellent summary of flying with guitars. One option is to travel with a small guitar or a travel guitar. There are more choices these days and are better in quality. Expect to spend up to $400 for one of these. Most pros say the Calton is the better of the heavy-duty cases. They certainly are lighter! There is a "heavy duty" option when you order your case, and you can also order extra locking latches. Another suggestion is that you get a color other than black, so you can easily see it on the carousel, so that others won't pick it up by accident, and so you can easily see if someone walks off with YOUR guitar. Gruhn Guitars in Nashville has an excellent article on shipping guitars posted on their web page. It's at: http://www.gruhn.com/~gruhn/features/packing.html Happy flying! david kamerer birdhouse productions David Kamerer, Ph.D/JMC | Manhattan, KS 66506-6902 | Birdhouse Productions ECC/Bob Dole Hall | voice (913) 532-7064 | fax (913) 532-7355 Kansas State University | http://www.flinthills.com/~arts/birdhous.htm ============================= From: sywlau@acs4.acs.ucalgary.ca (Stephen Yiu Wah Lau) Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic Subject: Re: Guitar on Airplane Date: 27 Jun 1996 15:59:16 GMT When flying with your guitar, the main problem is that you (and your guitar) will most likely be treated differently each time you fly. The safest bet, and I realize that this isn't feasible for all people including myself) is to buy your guitar a seat. Next to buying a seat, the next safest is carrying it on. Here's a list of some of the main things to do that I've compiled, as well as any experiences I've had related to each... 1) Get a good hardshell case... Forget about this gig-bag thing- you should expect the worst. I myself own an SKB case for a mid-priced Takamine dreadnought (I couldn't justify a $400 Calton case for an $800 guitar, but some of you out there may...) Some manufacturers recommend using their own cases i.e. Taylor. Friends of mine have had these (Larrivee and Taylors in their own recommended cases) in cargo and they've survived very well. Reason against gig-bags- just in case the crew will not let the guitar on board, gig-bags won't cut it in a cargo hold. Oh, one more thing- SKBs are made only in classical and dreadnought sizes... Any other guitar shape and your SOL here... Look elsewhere. 1a) A dreadnought SKB (fairly wide and thick) will fit in overheads in at least a 727 (the smallest I've flown, sorry!) and their equivalents and anything larger. A friend has a Gibson SJ-100 in a Calton, which is about the same width as my SKB but a bit wider- it too should fit. Most guitars fall within overhead compartment weight restrictions. 2) Pack your guitar with care. Put towels in the headstock cavity so that the headstock is firmly cradled. I'd recommend loosening the strings a bit- maybe lowering them all a tone, but don't loosen them such that they are really slack (the "Two Extreme" rule- you want your neck/guitar to be in between totally strung to tension and all out zero neck tension to allow it to adjust). 3) When you go to the check-in counter, avoid having the guitar with you- get someone you trust hang onto it away from counter sight while you check in. It's an almost guaranteed fact that they will make you check the guitar as cargo if you have it with you. Along with this- make sure you know how many pieces of luggage you can carry on!!! If you can, sacrifice checking everything else in as cargo just so you can get your guitar on board. But remember- some airlines restrict the amount of luggage you have as cargo, so you may have to spend a few extra bucks for each additional piece of luggage... I myself carry two things on board- a portfolio with my tickets and other items of interest, and my guitar. Then at most two pieces of cargo luggage. 4) You shouldn't have any trouble getting through the security gate, but I was asked why I had a box of electronics and a couple of long wires running inside my guitar... I had a pickup and on-board preamp 8^)... 5) Try to preboard with your guitar. This may or may not work... One time I had tried and the attendant would not let me because there were an unusually high number of small children on the flight... She told me she'd notify me first when regular boarding would commence- she didn't. (On the bright side, I did sit with the guitarist/ mandolin player for the Great Western Orchestra and we had a hoot of a time talking guitar and music...) 6) At the gate is where you may run into troubles... Usually they will let you on believing that the check-in counter has authorized it, assuming that they believe the guitar will fit in an overhead. If they do not let you carry it on, don't cause a huge commotion. Some suggest you do, but I don't. Anger breeds anger! If the attendant is particularly cute, offer to buy her a coffee and play a song at the other end (or him, depending on who/what you are, "not that there's anything wrong with it"). I haven't tried this- if someone has successfully, let me know 8^)!! Next, ask if it can be put in an upright closet (this is where people say gig-bags would work because they can be hung... Bah-humbug...) and if not, ask if there is any way they can find room for it on board. Here's a good time to start lamenting about how attached you are to your instrument. No guarantees here though, sorry. 7) As a last resort, get it gate (or hand) checked by the attendant, and remember his/her name, so you can find him/her after the flight to get your guitar for you. The main problem is that there won't be an official cargo luggage tag placed by the airline... some say you can ask to get it gate checked at the check in counter... I don't know what happens here but I have doubts that they specifically find someone to hand check it here... once it's on the conveyor belt- good-bye. As long as you have that good hardshell case we talked about in (1)... There it is... My "Guitar (read "Baby") On Board" guide. Good luck and good flying. Steve -- Stephen Lau, Department of Chemistry, University of Calgary e-mail: sywlau@acs.ucalgary.ca -=- www site: http://www.ucalgary.ca/~sywlau/ "Sometimes chemistry works... sometimes you get a bad smell." - Ellen Well, actually, you get a bad smell most of the time! ======================================== Subject: Re: Flying with a guitar Date: 14 Nov 1996 16:52:03 GMT From: scomeau@cnct.com (scomeau) Organization: The Internet Conection Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic References: 1 , 2 Cian Kinsella (ciank@batelco.com.bh) wrote: : jimvw wrote: : > I will be flying with a guitar next week. Any suggestions on how to keep : > it in one piece? : > It's not an expensive guitar ($400) and will be in a Martin hardshell : > case. : > Thanks for any suggestions! : : I used a suggestion from an earlier thread on one of the newsgroups - it : worked fine. Pack the guitar in its hard case, then pack that inside a : big cardboard box with newspaper padding. Sprinkle liberally with : fragile stickers. Very little added weight and extra protection - of : course (in my experience) they never let you carry a full-size guitar as : cabin baggage. I don't have any personal experience, but an article in Acoustic Guitar magazine a couple months back gave some tips. 1) Check the guitar in at the gate (not at the check-in desk). In some cases, if the flight isn't full, they'll let you carry it on. If you have to check it request the pressurized cargo hold (where they put folks pets) since it is climate controlled. The other holds can get pretty cold. 2) Use a hardshell case! Baggage handlers are not kind and some take sick pleasure in mishandling luggage. You may want to invest in some of the better hard shell cases designed for traveling bands. 3) Pad the peghead. Broken pegheads are a common injury to guitars in transit. Just the weight of theu tuning gears can snap the peghead if the guitar is dropped. T-shirts or socks packed tightly around the peghead work well. 4) Loosen the tension on the strings before travel. This reduces the stress on the top. 5) For more insurance, pack the guitar (in its case) in a box and stuff your clothing in the spaces around the case for more cushioning. Use a plain rectangular box and it will be less obvious to vicious baggage handlers and thieves that it is a guitar. Be sure to label the box with your name and address. Also, it would be a good idea to put a "Fragile" sticker on it (I know, this probably tempts the baggage handlers). 6) Pick up your guitar from baggage claim immediately! Don't let someone steal it. 7) Give the instrument time to get back to room temperature before tuning up and playing. Sudden changes in temperature can put checks, and worse - cracks, in the body. Leave it in the case for awhile then open the case and let it sit a little longer before playing it. Other tips: Use a gig bag if you're trying to carry it on. The type that strap on like a back pack can make the guitar less obvious. Don't push the airline. Don't bring a lot of carry on luggage - your guitar and one small bag should be it. You'll get the best response if you're friendly and positive, not indignant. Board as early as possible. If you can afford it fly business or first class. Frequent flyers get preferred status for boarding above certain mileage levels. If you board late, all the overhead storage may be taken. Find out what type of aricraft you'll be on. The Boeing 700 series (e.g. 737, 747, etc.), airbuses and DC-10 are usually fine. L10-11's are too small. Also, airlines like Southwest Airlines and United Shuttle (not the regular United flights) usually won't let you board with your guitar. ---- Now my personal view --- Consider a travel guitar. If you're mainly bringing it for practice, why not try a travel guitar. There's several to choose from. Check out Acoustic Guitar from April 1996 for a review of 12 models. I travel twice a year to Japan twice a year (I work for a Japanese electronics company) and occasionally around the US. I needed something that was portable and discreet (I am traveling for business purposes after all). I opted for the SoloEtte by Wright Guitar. It's one of the more expensive models, around $500, but it's size and portability sold me. It's basically a stick with a detachable aluminum rod frame. Except for excessive heat, there's not much that can damage it's solid body. It packs in a slim rectangular case that's relatively discrete - though some say it looks like a rifle bag. It has a built-in amp that runs on a 9 volt battery and you listen to it with headphones or an amp. Although I can't rave about it's tone, it is adequate and it keeps my callouses in shape. It only comes in nylon string models - classical and cutaway (which I bought). So far I've taken my SoloEtte to Japan and Las Vegas (8 different airplanes to boot) with no problem from the airlines. It fits real nice in the overhead compartments and I don't have to worry about it getting crushed. The SoloEtte is only sold by direct mail or telephone; you can't try it out in a music store. However, the folks there were really accomodating and assured me that I could return the guitar if I wasn't satisfied. Wright Guitar Technology 541-343-0872 (They're located in Oregon) 'nuff said --- *"Nothin' to tell now. Steve Comeau * * Let the words be yours, scomeau@cnct.com * * I'm done with mine." - Barlow Tel. 201-348-7778 * =========================================