| B-Band Question [3] |
|---|
From: Dal <dalimor@hotmail...>
Subject: Re: B-Band Question
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 12:29:55 +0800
Organization: The University of Western Australia
Hi all
I've recently had a b-band installed in my lovely hand made Instrument.
After the installation I wasn't completely happy with the balance (Checked by
recording straight to Mini-disc) , the balance was acually pretty good
compared to the old piezo in my 12 string but after all the discussion here
I wanted perfection. So I took it out and reinstalled it using the latest
Zyla clay/water putty method. I re-checked the balance after a couple of
days and the high E was about 10% lower than the rest (which were in perfect
balance). So I took it out again and it looks like I've put a tiny crease in
the strip between the E and the B. So to the $64 question, Is there any
reasony why I can't snip the electret strip and reinstall. I'd olny be
cutting off about a centimetre and there's plenty of strip left.
Any thoughts? and if so what tool would people recommend?
Cheers
Dal
From: Paul Guy <paul@guyguitars...>
Subject: Re: B-Band Question
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 06:28:20 +0100
Organization: Paul Guy Guitars
Dal <<dalimor@hotmail...>> wrote:
> Hi all
>
> I've recently had a b-band installed in my lovely hand made Instrument.
> After the installation I wasn't completely happy with the balance (Checked
> by recording straight to Mini-disc) , the balance was acually pretty good
> compared to the old piezo in my 12 string but after all the discussion
> here I wanted perfection. So I took it out and reinstalled it using the
> latest Zyla clay/water putty method. I re-checked the balance after a
> couple of days and the high E was about 10% lower than the rest (which
> were in perfect balance). So I took it out again and it looks like I've
> put a tiny crease in the strip between the E and the B. So to the $64
> question, Is there any reasony why I can't snip the electret strip and
> reinstall. I'd olny be cutting off about a centimetre and there's plenty
> of strip left.
>
> Any thoughts? and if so what tool would people recommend?
EMF state categorically in their instructions that the strip should
not be cut under any circumstances, it may destroy the pickup (and
will nullify the guarantee). Not sure why, but I have no reason to doubt
them...
I doubt that a "tiny crease" would affect the balance (I've had this
happen myself without it causing any problems), but I may be wrong...
Only the first 3.15" of the strip is active, BTW (the remainder is just
"wire").
HTH
Paul Guy
--
Paul Guy Guitars (Handbuilt / Custom built / Repairs)
Katarina Bangata 65, 116 42 Stockholm
Homepage: http://home.swipnet.se/guyguitars
From: George Reiswig <george.reiswig@intel...>
Subject: Re: B-Band Question
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 11:47:55 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
EMF doesn't want you to snip the element because the transducer section of
the element does not extend for the entire length of the thing. In other
words, they make the transducer section only as long as it needs to be to
accommodate the bridge, and the rest of the element is a "cable" of sorts.
If you cut off the end, it may still work, and you may get your first string
back. But then your 6th string will probably be gone.
GR
Dal wrote in message <<38741A42.F47B8D75@hotmail...>>...
>
>
>Hi all
>
>I've recently had a b-band installed in my lovely hand made Instrument.
>After the installation I wasn't completely happy with the balance (Checked
by
>recording straight to Mini-disc) , the balance was acually pretty good
>compared to the old piezo in my 12 string but after all the discussion
here
>I wanted perfection. So I took it out and reinstalled it using the latest
>Zyla clay/water putty method. I re-checked the balance after a couple of
>days and the high E was about 10% lower than the rest (which were in
perfect
>balance). So I took it out again and it looks like I've put a tiny crease
in
>the strip between the E and the B. So to the $64 question, Is there any
>reasony why I can't snip the electret strip and reinstall. I'd olny be
>cutting off about a centimetre and there's plenty of strip left.
>
>Any thoughts? and if so what tool would people recommend?
>
>Cheers
>
>Dal
>
| yet more b-band-thanks Heikki! [4] |
|---|
From: <lindyboy@my-deja...>
Subject: yet more b-band-thanks Heikki!
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 14:19:30 GMT
Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy.
Hi folks, more but worth it. I may be testifying here, but, after
contacting the folks at b-band and idicating my problems, we concluded
that clearly a new system was in order. Hiekki sent me one, with core
99 upgrade and with in minutes I had re-installed and was up and
running, playing ,dancing ,shouting for joy. A word of caution though.
I mentioned on a previous post that reproducing pet accoustic guitars
for stage use is a bit dumb to start with, epecially when the only
options we have are under the saddle and inside the guitar. (excluding
high end micing teqniques for low volume venues). None the less, in my
humble yet vastly frustrating experienced opinion B-Band is the best
yet....given some care and attetion to detail. For the high end guitar
players where reproducing the beauty of your instrument is essential on
stage and anyone else, if you don't go "cheap" you will be immensly
rewarded. Some ideas......get the b-band either with the mic or do some
research and add a mic to it. There is NO question that the internal
mic adds extra warmth and harmonic over tones BUT you gotta be careful.
The system has to run thru god equalization, with either a 7 band
graphic or 3 band parametric. You must experiment a bit with placement
of mic, ussually facing out ouf the sound hole at an angle works best.
Your pre-amp should have a headphone out and thats where you mix and
blend, first the p/u then the mike. ( I suggest a Rane AP 13), I know
this stuff ias pricy try buying in Canadian dollars ($700.00+)!
The low end filter on the rane allows for subtle cuts in the 40 to 250
cycle range where I find most of the trouble is a fairly loud volumes.
Finally, Stay away from so called "accoustic" amps. I found that a high
quality full rrange monitor with good power is the best way to go
either as a solo, with small combo or full band. Personally I have been
using JBL eon 10's for smaller venues and 15's for larger ones.
This is not a cheap way to go, but why buy a beautiful accoustic guitar
and have it sound like crap on stage to your fans, friends and family?
I didn't want to re-open the big debate here, but finally, this making
a fine acoustic guitar sound good on stage is starting to become a
reality. thanks for listening. Kevin Head@ kevinhead.com
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
From: Unsung96 <unsung96@aol...>
Subject: Re: yet more b-band-thanks Heikki!
Date: 07 Jan 2000 14:39:16 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
<< None the less, in my
humble yet vastly frustrating experienced opinion B-Band is the best
yet....given some care and attetion to detail. For the high end guitar
players where reproducing the beauty of your instrument is essential on
stage and anyone else, if you don't go "cheap" you will be immensly
rewarded. >>
Has anybody tried the combination of a Fishman Rare Earth Blend AND under
saddle piezo blended through whatever means? I haven't actually tried this
particular rig on stage but around the house and although highly subjective I
personally find this really, really hard to beat for a "high end" sound.
Although you got to live with a ton of stuff in your guitar.
From: Bobs Dorgan <d77737@epix...>
Subject: Re: yet more b-band-thanks Heikki!
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 14:52:46 GMT
Organization: Bobs R us
Unsung96 wrote:
>
> << None the less, in my
> humble yet vastly frustrating experienced opinion B-Band is the best
> yet....given some care and attetion to detail. For the high end guitar
> players where reproducing the beauty of your instrument is essential on
> stage and anyone else, if you don't go "cheap" you will be immensly
> rewarded. >>
>
> Has anybody tried the combination of a Fishman Rare Earth Blend AND under
> saddle piezo blended through whatever means? I haven't actually tried this
> particular rig on stage but around the house and although highly subjective I
> personally find this really, really hard to beat for a "high end" sound.
> Although you got to live with a ton of stuff in your guitar.
I think Tom Loredo has tried it.
When I met him in Ithaca, he had TWO undersaddle piezos in his guitar,
a Sunrise soundhole and I belive some type of internal mic!
I'm not sure exactly what was active, and what was inactive. He had a
jack mounted in the endpin hole and a second jack mounted on the lower
bout also.
Whatever he was using, the sound was incredible.
Bob Dorgan
From: Paul Guy <paul@guyguitars...>
Subject: Re: yet more b-band-thanks Heikki!
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 18:40:03 +0100
Organization: Paul Guy Guitars
Unsung96 <<unsung96@aol...>> wrote:
> Has anybody tried the combination of a Fishman Rare Earth Blend AND under
> saddle piezo blended through whatever means? I haven't actually tried this
> particular rig on stage but around the house and although highly
> subjective I personally find this really, really hard to beat for a "high
> end" sound. Although you got to live with a ton of stuff in your guitar.
I recently installed a B-Band undersaddle pickup and a New2Frontier
preamp in a guitar for a customer. The guitar already had a Fishman Rare
Earth soundhole pickup. Harri Saastamoinen at EMF Acoustics kindly
provided me with instructions on how to modify the mic input on the
New2Frontier to work with the magnetic soundhole pickup. (This involved
changing a couple of *surface-mount* resistors and capacitors, so needs
a pretty steady hand...)
This combination worked really well, and the customer is delighted -
says he has never had such a good sound before.
Doing it this way you don't need "a ton of stuff" in the guitar - just
the B-Band, the Rare Earth, and the New2Frontier preamp. The signals
from both pickups are available separately at the stereo output jack for
separate processing, or can be mixed on the jack's tip connection.
Paul Guy
--
Paul Guy Guitars (Handbuilt / Custom built / Repairs)
Katarina Bangata 65, 116 42 Stockholm
Homepage: http://home.swipnet.se/guyguitars
| Sunrise + B-band comments |
|---|
From: Elizabeth Papapetrou <NOSPAMmother@fdt...>
Subject: Sunrise + B-band comments
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 20:54:24 GMT
Organization: University of Florida
Hey All.
Remember when I talked about buying a Sunrise pickup to put in harness with
a B-Band Core system, instead of an internal mic? The idea was to make my
trusty old Fender El Rio into a useable stage and studio guitar. It had
been fitted with a full B-Band mic & pickup system but wasn't cutting it as
an acoustic-sounding instrument in comparison to my SCGC H & Goodall GC. The
El Rio is thin-bodied and has a warm, low-volumed sound. Consequently,
after Heikki of EMF Acoustics told me you could use a magnetic p/u instead
of a mic with B-Band, I picked up a used Sunrise to test it out. The only
pre-amp mod was to disable the internal phantom power to the mic
connections. EMF did this for me but it is very simple. All i ahd to do was
solder up the Sunrise wires to a connector that fitted the fixed plug for
the mic on the pre-amp, reassemble it all and connect it all up via a stereo
cord to a pocket blender.
Everything worked fine immediately but I had to fiddle with the individual
pole pieces to get a balanced output from the Sunrise. I put the two signals
through my Pocket Blender and had a happy time playing with it all. I was
very impressed! The Sunrise is really surprising as, although it has an
acoustici-like sound (how do they do that?) it really shines in the
power-without-feedback behind the tone. It's general character is to be
almost tube-warm with a tight cutting edge in the treble. I could easily
adjust it to balance with the B-band and take the same role as an internal
mic, giving depth to the low mids and lows and a substantial solid edge to
the highs. The net result on my El Rio is an incredibly full-bodied sound
that is definitely centered in the acoustic nature of the instrument but has
a warmth to it reminiscent of an ampified archtop. In fact, I considered
changing out the TI Plectrum strings on the guitar for some flatwounds, as
it has turned into a stupendous jazz guitar (it's forte anyway). In the end,
I decided it was worth keeping the definite woody, flat-top nature and stuck
with the Plectrums.
I think the most surprising thing to me was how easy it was to get a
wonderful sound from this pick-up combination. I'm told that Michael Hedges
used several thousand dollars worth of outboard processing equipment to get
the thick, expressive tone he used live with his Sunrise powered set-up. I
got something that has a very similar quality quite simply. That said, the
standout feature of the Sunrise/B-Band partnership is it's powerl. If I had
to cut through a complex mix of instruments in live situations at high
levels, this is the guitar and set-up I would reach for.
Regards
Elizabeth
B-Band Endorsee
--
Remove NOSPAM from email address for personal replies
| Sunrise + B-Band [2] |
|---|
From: Elizabeth Papapetrou <NOSPAMmother@fdt...>
Subject: Sunrise + B-Band
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:05:46 GMT
Organization: University of Florida
Hey All.
Remember when I talked about buying a Sunrise pickup to put in harness with
a B-Band Core system, instead of an internal mic? The idea was to make my
trusty old Fender El Rio into a useable stage and studio guitar. It had
been fitted with a full B-Band mic & pickup system but wasn't cutting it as
an acoustic-sounding instrument in comparison to my SCGC H & Goodall GC. The
El Rio is thin-bodied and has a warm, low-volumed sound. Consequently,
after Heikki of EMF Acoustics told me you could use a magnetic p/u instead
of a mic with B-Band, I picked up a used Sunrise to test it out. The only
pre-amp mod was to disable the internal phantom power to the mic
connections. EMF did this for me but it is very simple. All i ahd to do was
solder up the Sunrise wires to a connector that fitted the fixed plug for
the mic on the pre-amp, reassemble it all and connect it all up via a stereo
cord to a pocket blender.
Everything worked fine immediately but I had to fiddle with the individual
pole pieces to get a balanced output from the Sunrise. I put the two signals
through my Pocket Blender and had a happy time playing with it all. I was
very impressed! The Sunrise is really surprising as, although it has an
acoustici-like sound (how do they do that?) it really shines in the
power-without-feedback behind the tone. It's general character is to be
almost tube-warm with a tight cutting edge in the treble. I could easily
adjust it to balance with the B-band and take the same role as an internal
mic, giving depth to the low mids and lows and a substantial solid edge to
the highs. The net result on my El Rio is an incredibly full-bodied sound
that is definitely centered in the acoustic nature of the instrument but has
a warmth to it reminiscent of an ampified archtop. In fact, I considered
changing out the TI Plectrum strings on the guitar for some flatwounds, as
it has turned into a stupendous jazz guitar (it's forte anyway). In the end,
I decided it was worth keeping the definite woody, flat-top nature and stuck
with the Plectrums.
I think the most surprising thing to me was how easy it was to get a
wonderful sound from this pick-up combination. I'm told that Michael Hedges
used several thousand dollars worth of outboard processing equipment to get
the thick, expressive tone he used live with his Sunrise powered set-up. I
got something that has a very similar quality quite simply. That said, the
standout feature of the Sunrise/B-Band partnership is it's powerl. If I had
to cut through a complex mix of instruments in live situations at high
levels, this is the guitar and set-up I would reach for.
Regards
--
Remove NOSPAM from email address for personal replies
From: lionson <lionson@ms17...>
Subject: Re: Sunrise + B-Band
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 16:13:57 +0800
Organization: DCI HiNet
Hi~~ Elisabath and everybody,
Can you or anyone tell me what to do to the preamp of b-band when matching Sunrise and
b-band together ? I have several Sunrises and b-bands(not core-99 version) , have tried one
Sunrise with McIntyre through Sunrise D.I , b-band with crown mic through Fishman blender,
both nice results.
I'm very interested how Sunrise+b-band works. :-)
regards,
Lai
Elizabeth Papapetrou wrote:
>
> Whoops! I think this posted 3 times now. Apologies - I'm having touble with
> my new ng software.
>
> Elizabeth
| B-Band Prototype installation successful [2] |
|---|
From: Gary L. Weideman <glweid@nwsgpa...>
Subject: B-Band Prototype installation successful
Date: 24 Jan 2000 17:30:43 GMT
Organization: Lucent Technologies
Well after installing my B-band piezo replacement prototype unsuccessfully
(by itself without the clay method) on my Taylor 314-MCE I tried it again
with the thin layers of clay (on both sides on the B-Band) as recommended here. With
the non-clay installation the volume was too low and the balance was off and I didn't think
I was going to be able to use it.
Well I tried the clay method and it worked great !!! The volume is now acceptable (equals
the Fishman piezo element) and the balance on every string is perfect ! The B-Band
sounds great and really picks up fingerstyle and well as hard strumming equally well.
I got carried away with my new Dremel tool and made my own version of a Fishman Cleartone
which also seems to work pretty well.
It's going to be fun fooling friends with this setup - Fishman electronics with a
smoking B-Band under the saddle !
Now back to playing with the DL-4 looper.
Thanks to everyone who contributed this information !
G. Weideman
From: Larry Pattis <abuse@127...>
Subject: Re: B-Band Prototype installation successful
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:01:10 -0700
Organization: XMission http://www.xmission.com/
In article <<0d9501a8.90a100f7@usw-ex0102-016...>>, Troubleman (Jay
Brown)
>
> I wasn't aware that a B-band replacement for a Fishman element existed.
> Mind filling in the details?
>
> jb
The piezo replacment unit from EMF/B-band is not (to my knowledge) a
production item at this point in time. They came up with this idea (a
great one, if you ask me) sometime ago, created some demo units that did
indeed find their way to the marketplace, but have since devoted their
resources to other areas.
Larry Pattis
Yes, I do use (and therefore "endorse") EMF Acoustics/B-band gear.
"Surround yourself with friends that are seeking the truth, and run like
hell from anyone claiming to have found it."
Lpattis "at" xmission "dot" com
Liberal Palette Records
http://liberalpalette.com
| B-Band Entity Is Available [2] |
|---|
From: Larry Pattis <abuse@127...>
Subject: Re: B-Band Entity Is Available
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:33:11 -0700
Organization: XMission http://www.xmission.com/
In article <h96j4.77$<Or3.2374@cletus...>>, "DReke"
<<dreke@bright...>> wrote:
> I checked the EMF B-Band web site today, and it says that the Entity is now
> available. Here's the URL if you'd like to check it out:
>
> http://www.b-band.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?products_entity
>
> Please let me know what you think.
>
> Dan Reke
Dan & all,
It is not quite available for purchase, as I don't think units have shipped
yet to the U.S. distributors. Soon, though.
I have a demo unit that I am VERY pleased with. I have not gotten far
enough into my testing to post a review, but I will soon. For now, with my
PA set up in my living room (which is sort of silly, because I can use it
for a 500 seat room!), well, it's big, it's bad (meaning good), and I no
longer have to use batteries anywhere for the B-band/Core pre-amp or mic,
not even in my guitar. The whole thing can operate off of an a/c adapter
(or 9v battery in the Entity itself), but I'm running it right off the 48v
phantom that my Mackie mixer provides. Very cool. I've been shaking the
walls of my house to get experience with the EMF approach to EQ, and so far
so good. I have a concert on Feb. 5 where I will get the full experience,
then I will be comfortable giving a full report.
Larry Pattis
I "endorse" the EMF gear because I like to use what sounds the best for ME.
"Surround yourself with friends that are seeking the truth, and run like
hell from anyone claiming to have found it."
Lpattis "at" xmission "dot" com
Liberal Palette Records
http://liberalpalette.com
From: Larry Pattis <abuse@127...>
Subject: Re: B-Band Entity Is Available
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:46:00 -0700
Organization: XMission http://www.xmission.com/
In article <r%qj4.105$<5Q3.2427@cletus...>>, "DReke"
<<dreke@bright...>> wrote:
> Larry,
>
> How complicated is the Entity to use? (I mean to make the adjustments, not
> plugging it in or installing it.) I'm not knowledgeable about electronics,
> and I have no interest in learning - I'd rather spend the time learning more
> about music and guitars. Given that, would the Entity be okay for someone
> like me? Or should I look for something simpler where the only adjustment is
> volume and pickup/mic mix and maybe bass/treble adjustment? Reading the
> Entity web page is somewhat overwhelming to me. Could I just fiddle with the
> knobs until it sounds right to me?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan Reke
Dan,
Without assuming anything about your level of expertise, the Entity is
certainly an easy piece of gear to use. It is designed for a dual pick-up
(saddle pick-up/mic, saddle pick-up/magnetic pick-up, etc.) type use...so
really is something that will be valuable to anyone looking for this type
of gear. It is comparable in many features (there are differences in EQ
controls) to the Fishman Pocket Blender, but it also has some unique
features.
I don't want to post a premature review, again I have a concert in early
Feb. that will allow me to do a real stage test. I will consider myself
able to report back fully then. Suffice it to say that the Entity will
operate with any current manufacturer's saddle element, and any internal
mic. It can receive it's own power from an a/c adapter, a 9v battery, or
the completely unique feature of being able to run from the 48v phantom
power from any mixer or amp it may be plugged into. It also has the
ability to, with a specialized internal-to-the-guitar pre-amp from EMF,
allow complete battery-free operation; that is, no battery necessary IN the
guitar to power a specially designed Core pre-amp. Again, so as not to be
confusing, this last feature will NOT allow regular Core or Core99 units
from EMF to operate battery-free (existing gear that folks own now), there
is a new specially designed Core (called possibly the Entity Core?) that is
necessary along with the Entity to run this way. Clear?
In terms of the Entity and it's controls, it is no more (or less!)
difficult to operate than any dual channel pre-amp out there (o.k., it's
easier than the Pendulum, because parametric EQ on the Pendulum does
require some level of sophistication), and if you have a dual system in a
guitar, or planned for a guitar, well, there may be yet another choice to
make in regards to good equipment available. Early results certainly
confirm that...full report to follow after Feb. 5.
Could you "just fiddle with the knobs until it sounds right...?", well,
probably not for ANY piece of gear that performs this function if you don't
understand their basic functions. You have to learn a few things about EQ
to properly operate any of these dual-channel pre-amps. It's good to be
not-afraid to twist knobs, but you need to have some basis of understanding
if you expect to get good results...just like if you want to learn to play
guitar well, there aren't any magic wands that anyone can wave to make you
play so it sounds good. Sorry to be so pedantic, but your basic question
leaves a short answer open to too much interpretation. I want to be
precise...it's in my nature....
Larry Pattis
"Surround yourself with friends that are seeking the truth, and run like
hell from anyone claiming to have found it."
Lpattis "at" xmission "dot" com
Liberal Palette Records
http://liberalpalette.com
| B-band [2] |
|---|
From: Chuck Boyer <chuck@caboyer...>
Subject: Re: B-band
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 02:21:54 GMT
Organization: RoadRunner - MGFairfax
ken wrote ...
> I have a Tacoma Chief. Would a B-band pickup be a good choice for this
> guitar? Where can i get the best price? thanks.
Ken,
That's what I plan to put in my C1C so my opinion's obvious,
I guess. FWIW, El McMeen's new 'Live' CD was recorded
direct from the line signal, which was driven by his B-Band
with an internal mic. El or Larry Pattis could probably describe
the exact setup in great detail.
If you can listen to Al Petteway's Homespun Videos, I believe
those recordings were made using the signal directly from
the TrueTone system (combined transducer and mic) in his
guitar. That combo sounded pretty good too.
Some thoughts for you, anyway...
Cheers,
Chuck Boyer
From: john bj <desert2000@my-deja...>
Subject: Re: B-band
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 17:36:38 GMT
Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy.
Ken wrote:
> I have a Tacoma Chief. Would a B-band pickup be a good choice for
this guitar? Where can i get the best price? thanks.
>
Hi Ken,
I got my C1C with the E7 (B-Band and preamp only, no mic) option. I've
been extremely happy with it. Factory installed is easily the best price
(I got mine through FQMS), but if you already have the guitar, you need
to consider a few things. First, retrofitting a Chief with an under
saddle pickup is no easy task, mostly due to the relatively small,
offset soundhole. Threading in a pickup will be very awkward. So, you
have to either be confident in your own ability to do the work or find a
willing luthier. You may have to pay a bit extra for the harder work.
Even if your local shop prices sound high, though, very often they'll
include installation free, or at least significantly discounted. If you
want to give it a go yourself, read up on the drilling involved
(www.frets.com has a section on it), try a few test squeezes with your
arm or invent a few tools to help place the preamp in the endpin hole
and thread the pickup into the saddle slot. Then, if you're still
willing, I'd say FQMS has pretty good prices for the B-Band/Core (under
$100, last time I checked).
As an alternative, perhaps you could trade your Chief in for one with a
factory installed pickup.
peace and joy,
jbj
--
(e-mails should be sent to desert2000 @ NOSPAM yahoo.com)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
| Daedalus and the B-Band [2] |
|---|
From: <mike@cellbio...>
Subject: Re: Daedalus and the B-Band
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:11:05 -0600
Organization: Washington University in St. Louis
In article <M_AB4.12749$<iP.861506@bgtnsc04-news...>>,
"Andy" <<abull@worldnet...>> wrote:
Don't know about your specific setup, but I replaced a Highlander
installed in a Taylor Leo Kottke 12 string with a B-band and the
improvement in amplified tone was remarkable.
From: George Reiswig <george.reiswig@intel...>
Subject: Re: Daedalus and the B-Band
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:28:39 -0800
Organization: Intel Corporation
I'm using instruments with dual-source B-Bands, and going into a PA based on
Lou's M-807 monitors. I've not tried a Highlander, but I'm VERY pleased
with the sound of the B-Bands. I've heard Highlanders, and thought they
sounded nice as well. I don't know if Lou has tried B-Bands out..did you
ask him?
I also know that I have a tendency to wonder about the grass on the other
side of the hill..."maybe that Highlander is better...." It sounds a
little like this is what you're going through.
Bottom line: if you like the sound you're getting now, I doubt you'd be
pleased with the return on your investment in changing over to Highlander
pickups. The B-Band is really good, too, and you'd just have to try out the
Highlander if you really wanted to hear the difference. Another thing to
keep in mind is that some guitars favor certain pickups, while others
favor...others.
GR
Andy wrote in message ...
>>
>
>
>
>I just got the parts to my new amp setup which is a Hafler
>power amp and a Raven blender w/ a Daedalus cabinet and I'm
>pretty blown away by the sound. It has a really tight punchy
>bottom end and great balance with a sound of real authority.
>I can't wait to gig with it. My only point of disquiet, shall
>we say, comes over my pickups, a subject that has been pretty
>much beat to death here (sorry). I have a B-Band
>+mini mic I got last year but Lou Hinkley, (Daedalus) says
>Highlander is the way to go through his amps. The B-Band is the
>only pickup I have ever had. It goes in a 000-28EC and I have
>been happy with it but with this new setup the mic feeds back
>so I just turn it off. Every thing Lou told me about the Daedalus
>stuff was absolutely on the money and I trust him because of
>that but on checking Deja on the subject of Highlander vs B-Band
>its very murky water. So at the risk of being really boring
>I wonder if anyone has any strong feelings on this. Right now
>I'm leaning toward leaving well enough alone.
> Thanks, Andy in Austin
>
>
| Baggs Double Barrel vs B-Band [2] |
|---|
From: Dan Mirolli <dmirolli@vt...>
Subject: Re: Baggs Double Barrel vs B-Band
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 12:36:38 -0400
Organization: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, Virginia, USA
>
> >
>
> Thanks for letting me know that that is inaccurate Tom. I read it in the
> Musicians Friend catalog. They say, ".....features no drilling and no
> soldering for installation". I wondered how that could be, but I figured
> MF knows what they're talking about. ;-)
>
> I'll probably get the b-band Core system without the mic. Since I don't
> have a stereo amp, I probably can't make use of the stereo signal that
> comes from the pickup/mic combination.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Harie
>
I have the B-Band Core preamp under saddle pickup in my CFOX and am amazed
at the accurate tone. I've been doing a little recording directly to a hard
disk recorder and the sound is really close to having a decent mic in front
of the guitar. Certainly not perfect like with a great condensor mic
but better than anything I've owned from Fishman or Baggs.
Dan
From: john bj <desert2000@my-deja...>
Subject: Re: Baggs Double Barrel vs B-Band
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 18:08:15 GMT
Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy.
Harie wrote (regarding a Baggs RT/Double Barrel installation):
Thanks for letting me know that that is inaccurate Tom. I read it in
the Musicians Friend catalog. They say, ".....features no drilling and
no soldering for installation". I wondered how that could be, but I
figured MF knows what they're talking about. ;-)
>
> I'll probably get the b-band Core system without the mic. Since I
don't have a stereo amp, I probably can't make use of the stereo signal
that comes from the pickup/mic combination.
>
Hi Harie,
I can tell you MF is not exactly bubbling over with expertise in the
acoustic guitar arena. Generally good prices, but you gotta know
exactly what you want before you talk to them: their knowledge is
usually limited to catalogs and manufacturer's spec sheets.
Still, perhaps they meant "no additional drilling", which assumes
you're replacing a system, so the hole in the saddle slot and properly
sized endpin hole already exist. "No soldering" is a big plus for me.
I'm not sure about the Double Barrel, but the Core pre-amp has little
snap-in connectors for the B-Band and mic. So if you damage the B-Band
somehow and need to replace it, or want add the mic later, it's easily
done. Some manufacturers just give you wires that you have to cut to
size and solder onto the preamp leads, making changeouts and additions a
real time-consuming painstaking effort.
I installed the B-Band in my Taylor 555 12-string last December. The
only drilling required was through the saddle slot because Taylor has
that straight-through endpin design. It took me less than an hour,
including the de-stringing and re-stringing (and wincing as I took a
drill to my brand new guitar!). Aside from a paper shim under the E
strings to correct a balance problem, it's been perfect.
peace and joy,
jbj
--
(e-mails should be sent to desert2000 @ NOSPAM yahoo.com)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
| UK3 |
|---|
From: Shirley Worrall <sfw@dial...>
Subject: Re: UK3
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:19:19 +0100
Organization: UUNET WorldCom server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET WorldCom
On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:59:29 +0100, "Nigel Tucker"
<<Ntucker@btinternet...>> wrote:
It was a brilliant time - as always, seeing old friends and meeting
new ones were the best parts - but the cherry schnapps from Greg and
Elisabeth on Saturday night ran them a very close second ;-) In fact,
I think I'm still enjoying the after effects of the schnapps. Some 60
or so hours later, my mind has not yet entirely returned to my
body...
Thanks to all who came for making it such a blast, and particularly to
those who travelled such enormous distances to do so! Thanks also to
all of you (and there were many) who helped to put the bash together
in one way or another, and particularly to Nigel ("International
Superstar") Tucker :-)
I met some lovely new guitars too, Bob's Goodall and Al's Gevers
coming high on the list of guitars I've wanted to play for a long time
now. They were both superb. I still have to learn to play the two
lovely guitars I already have, so I won't be buying a new one in the
foreseeable future. But what I will be buying as soon as I can get
my sticky little hands on one is a B-band with mic just like Bob's: it
truly is the pickup entirely without quack, and with a completely
natural sound. Through the Ultrasound amp, it gave me a Pickup Attack
of enormous proportions.
Finally, thanks once again to all the guests who came to play for and
talk to us - I'm hoping to see them again at a bash in the future.
Roll on the next one...
Best wishes,
--
Shirl
| b-band pickup [8] |
|---|
From: Shirley Worrall <sfw@dial...>
Subject: Re: b-band pickup
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:19:55 +0100
Organization: UUNET WorldCom server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET WorldCom
On 18 Apr 2000 15:07:57 GMT, "kiwus, andreas"
<<andreas.kiwus@mlr...>> wrote:
>can tell me anybody about sound-qualities of the b-band-pickup?
I played one this weekend in Bob Dorgan's Goodall through an
Ultrasound amp. The B-band sounded entirely natural and rich, and
there was absolutely no quack whatsoever. This contrasts with the
Headway pickup in my own guitar, which also sounds rich and natural
through the Ultrasound amp but does have some quack. I'm going to buy
a B-band.
Best wishes,
--
Shirl
From: john bj <desert2000@my-deja...>
Subject: Re: b-band pickup
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:21:35 GMT
Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy.
Shirley Worrall wrote in response to Andreas' B-Band query:
> I played one this weekend in Bob Dorgan's Goodall through an
Ultrasound amp. The B-band sounded entirely natural and rich, and there
was absolutely no quack whatsoever. This contrasts with the Headway
pickup in my own guitar, which also sounds rich and natural through the
Ultrasound amp but does have some quack. I'm going to buy a B-band.
>
I have B-Bands in my Martin D-35, Taylor 555 and Tacoma C1C Chief, for
the reasons Shirley provided above. Previously used Martin Thinline on
the D-35, which was extremely "quacky". I find that I don't need to use
an internal mic with the B-Band: it sounds great without one in all my
guitars. I believe this demonstrates the diverse capability of the
B-Band.
peace and joy,
jbj
--
(e-mails should be sent to desert2000 @ NOSPAM yahoo.com)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
From: Steve Cuss <steveandlisa123@my-deja...>
Subject: Re: b-band pickup
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 03:45:47 GMT
Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy.
In article <8di5ib$12s$<1@nnrp1...>>,
john bj <desert2000@my-deja.com> wrote: I have B-Bands in my Martin D-35, Taylor 555 and Tacoma C1C Chief, for> the reasons Shirley provided above. Previously used Martin Thinline
on
> the D-35, which was extremely "quacky". I find that I don't need to
use
> an internal mic with the B-Band: it sounds great without one in all my
> guitars. I believe this demonstrates the diverse capability of the
> B-Band.
Wow! please know that what I am about to write is not flame bait, but
I am wrestling with the b band currently and because of my
disatisfaction, have decided to spring for the add on emf mic to see if
that will help the tone. Maybe it is the pa I play though at church
(Mackie 24 board with Crown amps and EV speaker cluster) but to me the
b band still sounds "electric" and a little brittle. It could also be
my lack of eq experience, but my ear is getting pretty good and darn it
if I can't eq my Baggs ParaDI to get the sound warm. Maybe the b band
is better than the rest of the bunch (certainly better than my previous
Barcus in a former guitar.) My last setup was a Baggs dual source with
the emf PR replacement b band wired in and it sounded great. Maybe I'm
just missing the added 3d that the baggs mic added but for me, the
whole pickup experience is "Still haven't found what I'm looking for."
Steve Cuss
--
my deja email address is a spam catcher.
My permanent address since 1996 is <cuss@juno...>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
From: Chuck Boyer <chuck@caboyer...>
Subject: Re: b-band pickup
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:53:15 GMT
Organization: RoadRunner - MGFairfax
Steve Cuss wrote ...
> Wow! please know that what I am about to write is not flame bait, but
> I am wrestling with the b band currently and because of my
> disatisfaction, have decided to spring for the add on emf mic to see if
> that will help the tone. Maybe it is the pa I play though at church
> (Mackie 24 board with Crown amps and EV speaker cluster) but to me the
> b band still sounds "electric" and a little brittle. It could also be
Steve,
If you can get a copy of El McMeen's "Live" CD, you can hear what
the B-Band with mic sounds like. The tracks on that CD were recorded
from El's line signal to minidisk. The production engineer did some
post processing to add "presence", but the essential sound of El's
pickups in his "old" Goodall is there for the hearing.
Cheers,
Chuck Boyer
From: Larry Sprigg <gsprigg@aol...>
Subject: Re: b-band pickup
Date: 19 Apr 2000 02:44:55 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
I have one in a Larrivee OM-09 and find the sound to be very natural. I am
replacing the Fishman Matrix in my Leo Kottke 6 with a B-Band.
Larry
To reply via E-Mail, please remove the "nojunk" from my address
From: john bj <desert2000@my-deja...>
Subject: Re: b-band pickup
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 20:36:00 GMT
Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy.
Ron the Lonesome 12 String Picker from North Carolina wrote:
> I am enjoying this thread. In as much as I am in the middle of making
my own choice I have 2 questions. One, is it true that EMF recommends
that you (only) use their preamp with the b-band. I have heard that
other preamps don't seem to work properly. Two, will the CR2 b-band
setup work any better with other on board condenser mics made by other
manufacturers? Ok, third, where can I find a good system price for the
CR2.
Hello fellow 12-stringer Ron,
Yep, only the Core preamp will work properly with a B-Band. You can
install an other-than-standard internal mic - I don't use one at all,
but I believe the process is covered in the B-Band manual. For a good
price, try FQMS (www.fqms.com), but be sure you're up to the task: if
you're swapping out an old system, it's pretty simple, but installing
the first electronics in a guitar may reaming out an endpin hole - which
may require a luthier's touch. Then bear in mind the B-Band's
sensitivity to the saddle slot geometry - you may have to rework the
slot and/or saddle to make them perfectly flat. Otherwise, you can be
in for some serious balance troubleshooting.
peace and joy,
jbj
--
(e-mails should be sent to desert2000 @ NOSPAM yahoo.com)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
From: Michael S. McCollum <eadric@visi...>
Subject: Re: b-band pickup
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:27:58 GMT
Organization: House Suo Marte
john bj wrote:
>
> Ron the Lonesome 12 String Picker from North Carolina wrote:
> > I am enjoying this thread. In as much as I am in the middle of making
> my own choice I have 2 questions. One, is it true that EMF recommends
> that you (only) use their preamp with the b-band. I have heard that
> other preamps don't seem to work properly. Two, will the CR2 b-band
> setup work any better with other on board condenser mics made by other
> manufacturers? Ok, third, where can I find a good system price for the
> CR2.
>
> Hello fellow 12-stringer Ron,
>
> Yep, only the Core preamp will work properly with a B-Band.
some info deleted
I'll toss in my agreement with john obn this one. I have the Core preamp
though I also use a Fishman Parametric DI box for further control and
shaping. I'm real pleased with this setup, though I'm considering adding
a mic later just for fun.
Mike
From: George Reiswig <george.reiswig@intel...>
Subject: Re: b-band pickup
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:44:07 -0700
Organization: Intel Corporation
Well, there's kind of two ways to answer this question, because there's
preamps, and there's preamps:
The B-Band element ONLY works with the in-guitar preamps made by EMF. In
other words, you can't buy a B-Band element, then try to get it to work with
your on-board Fishman preamp.
After that preamp stage, you're able to use pretty much anything. You can
go into a Rane AP-13, a Fishman whatever, a Mackie input, or an LR Baggs
ParaAcoustic DI. If you get an Entity endpin preamp, you'll probably want
to take advantage of an Entity external mixer (both Entity units are made by
EMF). There are some distinct advantages in doing so: you can avoid a
battery in your guitar by phantom powering the endpin preamp, the impedance
electronics were designed to work together, and so forth.
I hope that helps more than it confuses...
GR
john bj wrote in message <8dnpne$akc$<1@nnrp1...>>...
>Ron the Lonesome 12 String Picker from North Carolina wrote:
>> I am enjoying this thread. In as much as I am in the middle of making
>my own choice I have 2 questions. One, is it true that EMF recommends
>that you (only) use their preamp with the b-band. I have heard that
>other preamps don't seem to work properly. Two, will the CR2 b-band
>setup work any better with other on board condenser mics made by other
>manufacturers? Ok, third, where can I find a good system price for the
>CR2.
>
>Hello fellow 12-stringer Ron,
>
>Yep, only the Core preamp will work properly with a B-Band. You can
>install an other-than-standard internal mic - I don't use one at all,
>but I believe the process is covered in the B-Band manual. For a good
>price, try FQMS (www.fqms.com), but be sure you're up to the task: if
>you're swapping out an old system, it's pretty simple, but installing
>the first electronics in a guitar may reaming out an endpin hole - which
>may require a luthier's touch. Then bear in mind the B-Band's
>sensitivity to the saddle slot geometry - you may have to rework the
>slot and/or saddle to make them perfectly flat. Otherwise, you can be
>in for some serious balance troubleshooting.
>
>peace and joy,
>jbj
>--
>(e-mails should be sent to desert2000 @ NOSPAM yahoo.com)
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
| B-Band/Entity/Core brief explanations.... [2] |
|---|
From: Larry Pattis <abuse@127...>
Subject: B-Band/Entity/Core brief explanations....
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 17:10:34 -0600
Organization: XMission http://www.xmission.com/
In article <8dntpa$<ehb@news...>>, "George Reiswig"
<<george.reiswig@intel...>> wrote:
> Well, there's kind of two ways to answer this question, because there's
> preamps, and there's preamps:
>
> The B-Band element ONLY works with the in-guitar preamps made by EMF. In
> other words, you can't buy a B-Band element, then try to get it to work with
> your on-board Fishman preamp.
>
> After that preamp stage, you're able to use pretty much anything. You can
> go into a Rane AP-13, a Fishman whatever, a Mackie input, or an LR Baggs
> ParaAcoustic DI. If you get an Entity endpin preamp, you'll probably want
> to take advantage of an Entity external mixer (both Entity units are made by
> EMF). There are some distinct advantages in doing so: you can avoid a
> battery in your guitar by phantom powering the endpin preamp, the impedance
> electronics were designed to work together, and so forth.
>
> I hope that helps more than it confuses...
>
> GR
Let's shed some light on the impending "Entity Crisis."
Entity: A dual channel external pre-amp (not quite available for public
consumption) from EMF that can be mounted on a mic stand so your guitar
controls are handy. Works with any saddle element/mic or SBT or magnetic
pick-up or any two of the aforementioned sound sensing elements, not just
the B-band System. When used with the "Entity Core" (my name, not the
official name) it is used without a battery in the guitar. Always. ALSO,
the Entity itself will run from a mixing board's 48V phantom power, not
battery or a/c adapter necessary (it WILL, however, run with battery or a/c
adapter, but when 48V phantom power is available, why screw around with
batteries or wall warts?). Now, remember, the "no-battery-in -the-guitar"
function of the Entity will NOT work with anyone else's pick-up, NOR will
it work with existing Core or Core99 B-band gear...ONLY with the new
"Entity Core." Warning: The Entity has a series of internal dip switches
to change it's function from "Entity Core" usage to other pick-ups. It is
not something that you will be able to switch while on-stage!
Core (and Core99): EMF's internal pre-amp that is an integral part of the
"B-band System," commonly known as the B-Band. These require an internal
(to the guitar) 9V battery. They will ALWAYS require an internal 9V
battery, even if you use it with the new Entity. The Core will accept the
EMF mic, or any other two-wire internal condenser mic on the market.
B-Band: What EMF calls the saddle element, and unfortunately it is also
what they call their entire B-Band System.
"Entity Core": Might be the "name" of the "no-battery" version of the
B-band Core that will run with the Entity ONLY..........WARNING, this
"Entity Core" internal pre-amp will ONLY work in conjunction with an
Entity, it will NOT work by itself, or with anyone else's external pre-amp.
Period.
Larry Pattis
"Reality is unbelievable"
Lpattis "at" xmission "dot" com
Liberal Palette Records
http://liberalpalette.com
From: Tony Rairden <TRairden@strategicplan...>
Subject: Re: B-Band/Entity/Core brief explanations....
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:51:16 -0400
Good summary, Larry. the only thing I'd add is that what you call the
"Entity Core" is referred to by EMF as the "Entity Front End."
tr
Tony Rairden
First Quality Musical Supplies
www.fqms.com
"Larry Pattis" <<abuse@127...>> wrote in message
news:<abuse-ya02408000R2004001710340001@news...>...
| In article <8dntpa$<ehb@news...>>, "George Reiswig"
| <<george.reiswig@intel...>> wrote:
|
| > Well, there's kind of two ways to answer this question, because
there's
| > preamps, and there's preamps:
| >
| > The B-Band element ONLY works with the in-guitar preamps made by
EMF. In
| > other words, you can't buy a B-Band element, then try to get it to
work with
| > your on-board Fishman preamp.
| >
| > After that preamp stage, you're able to use pretty much
anything. You can
| > go into a Rane AP-13, a Fishman whatever, a Mackie input, or an LR
Baggs
| > ParaAcoustic DI. If you get an Entity endpin preamp, you'll
probably want
| > to take advantage of an Entity external mixer (both Entity units
are made by
| > EMF). There are some distinct advantages in doing so: you can
avoid a
| > battery in your guitar by phantom powering the endpin preamp, the
impedance
| > electronics were designed to work together, and so forth.
| >
| > I hope that helps more than it confuses...
| >
| > GR
|
|
|
| Let's shed some light on the impending "Entity Crisis."
|
| Entity: A dual channel external pre-amp (not quite available for
public
| consumption) from EMF that can be mounted on a mic stand so your
guitar
| controls are handy. Works with any saddle element/mic or SBT or
magnetic
| pick-up or any two of the aforementioned sound sensing elements, not
just
| the B-band System. When used with the "Entity Core" (my name, not
the
| official name) it is used without a battery in the guitar. Always.
ALSO,
| the Entity itself will run from a mixing board's 48V phantom power,
not
| battery or a/c adapter necessary (it WILL, however, run with battery
or a/c
| adapter, but when 48V phantom power is available, why screw around
with
| batteries or wall warts?). Now, remember, the
"no-battery-in -the-guitar"
| function of the Entity will NOT work with anyone else's pick-up, NOR
will
| it work with existing Core or Core99 B-band gear...ONLY with the new
| "Entity Core." Warning: The Entity has a series of internal dip
switches
| to change it's function from "Entity Core" usage to other pick-ups.
It is
| not something that you will be able to switch while on-stage!
|
| Core (and Core99): EMF's internal pre-amp that is an integral part
of the
| "B-band System," commonly known as the B-Band. These require an
internal
| (to the guitar) 9V battery. They will ALWAYS require an internal 9V
| battery, even if you use it with the new Entity. The Core will
accept the
| EMF mic, or any other two-wire internal condenser mic on the market.
|
| B-Band: What EMF calls the saddle element, and unfortunately it is
also
| what they call their entire B-Band System.
|
| "Entity Core": Might be the "name" of the "no-battery" version of
the
| B-band Core that will run with the Entity ONLY..........WARNING,
this
| "Entity Core" internal pre-amp will ONLY work in conjunction with an
| Entity, it will NOT work by itself, or with anyone else's external
pre-amp.
| Period.
|
| Larry Pattis
|
| "Reality is unbelievable"
|
| Lpattis "at" xmission "dot" com
|
| Liberal Palette Records
| http://liberalpalette.com
| B-Band Entity Update |
|---|
From: Larry Pattis <abuse@127...>
Subject: Re: B-Band Entity Update
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:30:44 -0600
Organization: XMission http://www.xmission.com/
In article <8dnm8a$cas$<1@slb1...>>, "Tony Rairden"
<<TRairden@NoSpamfqms...>> wrote:
> I talked with the EMF factory on Tuesday to try to find out what's up with
> the much-awaited Entity systems. Heikki says they have lots of components
> ready to ship, but are lacking the user's/installation manual. The latter is
> now in review with whomever is their (sole?) beta tester. Heikki told me
> they should have the manuals done in a couple of weeks, and will ship
> shortly thereafter. That means we should probably see them in retailers'
> hands (including ours) about a month from now.
>
> Tony Rairden
> First Quality Musical Supplies
> www.fqms.com
>
> (SPAM control on-- delete "NoSpam" from return address to correspond.)
I believe I know who is working on the manual, and I suspect that it will
be done well (it ain't me).
El and used "beta" Entity units (I think they were really the final
product) on our recent tour...they were not only flawless, easy to use, and
easy to travel with, but the sound was simply astonishing. All along, and
as a B-Band endorser, I had been using the Fishman Pocket Blender....and if
the Entity did not meet my standards for playing live I would have simply
continued on with the PBs. Not necessary, as the Entity exceeds my
expectations.
Once they "hit the streets" there will likely be endless commentary about
the unique EMF approach to EQ, and other issues that may appear "quirky" to
the uninitiated/potential customer. That's fine. My bottom line is that
the gear works in both a small and large concert hall environment. Since
the weather has been nice here in Utah over the last day or so, I was able
to take out my full PA into the backyard and simply blast the neighborhood
(for only a short while) for a high-volume test. It was great. Who says
fingerstyle guitar needs to be a meditative event?
I'm happy to report that the Entity is a success for me, and a viable
alternative for anyone considering any of the dual channel guitar pre-amps,
like the Rane AP-13, the Pedulum, the Fishman gear, or the Raven Labs
equipment. All good products. The Entity will work with any existing
two-channel set-up (Fishman, Highlander, Baggs, etc.), and also functions
(with a special new "Core" internal pre-amp, all EMF gear only) sans 9V
battery in the guitar!!!!! Finally.
Larry Pattis
"Unreality is believable"
Lpattis "at" xmission "dot" com
Liberal Palette Records
http://liberalpalette.com
| B-band problems [2] |
|---|
From: ken <ken@bsc...>
Subject: Re: B-band problems
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 22:37:30 -0500
Organization: CMDS News machine
OK. Apparently, it is a string balance problem that can apparently be fixed
relatively easy. What causes this? I have no problem at all with my Baggs
Duel Source. Why the B-band? Is it more susceptible to this problem?
Ken
ken <<ken@bsc...>> wrote in message news:8e29ts$j78$<1@server...>...
> I have a distinct drop in volume on my G, D, and A strings when plugged
in.
> Not much, but noticable to my ears. I took it in to a reputable tech and
he
> said there is nothing wrong with the pick-up but just a problem with the
> pickup at certain frequencies. He said a good pre-amp with EQ should fix
> it.
>
> I have two questions for you:
>
> 1) Is this good advice? And if so, what frequencies should I adjust to
> give me a balance?
>
> 2) Has anyone else ever experienced this problem? Could it be a problem
> with the pickup itself?
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Ken
>
>
From: George Reiswig <george.reiswig@intel...>
Subject: Re: B-band problems
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 09:13:13 -0700
Organization: Intel Corporation
Ken,
Again (and again, verily I say unto thee) please refer to "Deja" newsgroup
search for this topic. There are many good posts about it.
However, to summarize:
The B-Band had some problems in earlier iterations of the pickup designthat made it more susceptible than some to this problem. The fact that the
pickup is so thin is part of the reason. Particularly with the Baggs ribbon
transducer, the thickness and squishiness of the element made for pretty
even balance string-to-string.
In order to have perfect string balance, several things are necessary:the contour of the saddle slot and the bottom of the saddle need to be
parallel, as perfectly so as possible. (usually this takes the form of
"flat") Hit this first in your quest. Also, the pressure that each string
puts on the saddle itself should be as close as possible to the same
pressure the other strings put on it. (which is why the "smile" bridge pin
pattern sometimes seems to present problems...pins which are closer to the
saddle put more string pressure on the saddle than do pins which are farther
away) The saddle material must uniformly transmit the sound to the pickup.
(Tusque plastic is good for this, bone is often inconsistent) The pickup
should have good balance itself. And lastly, the guitar should have good
string balance acoustically.
On most pickups, a "dead" string when amplified means that there is notsufficient contact between the saddle and the pickup, so people put shims in
that spot underneath the pickup to increase the contact on that string. On
a B-Band, a "dead" string might mean too little or too much pressure, so
some experimentation is required. Patience will result in a superb acoustic
tone using the B-Band.
For a method that seems to work quite well with not muchexperimentation, please (please) refer to "Deja.com" and look for keywords
"B-Band, Zyla, clay." There you will find a much more definitive treatise
on this problem and a possible solution than I can provide here.
GR
ken wrote in message <8e34cs$dqa$<1@server...>>...
>OK. Apparently, it is a string balance problem that can apparently be
fixed
>relatively easy. What causes this? I have no problem at all with my Baggs
>Duel Source. Why the B-band? Is it more susceptible to this problem?
>
>Ken
>ken <<ken@bsc...>> wrote in message news:8e29ts$j78$<1@server...>...
>> I have a distinct drop in volume on my G, D, and A strings when plugged
>in.
>> Not much, but noticable to my ears. I took it in to a reputable tech and
>he
>> said there is nothing wrong with the pick-up but just a problem with the
>> pickup at certain frequencies. He said a good pre-amp with EQ should fix
>> it.
>>
>> I have two questions for you:
>>
>> 1) Is this good advice? And if so, what frequencies should I adjust to
>> give me a balance?
>>
>> 2) Has anyone else ever experienced this problem? Could it be a problem
>> with the pickup itself?
>>
>> Thanks for your help.
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>
>
| Anyone try the John Zyla method of seating a piezo pickup? |
|---|
From: Bob Dorgan <d77737@epix...>
Subject: Re: Anyone try the John Zyla method of seating a piezo pickup?
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 18:53:58 GMT
Organization: Free Wades
ken wrote:
>
> Anyone try the John Zyla method of seating a piezo pickup
> to achieve string balance?
>
> How does it work? How often does it have to be done?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ken
I tried it. It's quick, easy and from what I've seen permanent.
John has used it longer than any of us, so he can give you a better
perspective.
Bob Dorgan
| B-Band, Mixpro and other questions [3] |
|---|
From: <mwpannell@my-deja...>
Subject: B-Band, Mixpro and other questions
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:48:44 GMT
Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy.
Though I have followed B-Band and other acoustic pickup posts on and off
for a while, it's now time to start putting it all together and make
some decisions. Please excuse my naivete, but all this has just become
very important to me. Can someone help me with info:
1. Should the B-Band Core 99 system (under-saddle pickup and mic) work
with the new LR Baggs' Mixpro?
2. With the powered (?) Mixpro preamp/mixer, can the battery be
done away with inside the guitar?
3. Has anyone tried the Mixpro?
4. And finally (for the moment anyway), regarding B-Band installation
I've read about the potential string-to-string balance problems and a
clay solution that seemed to help in various ways. I did a B-Band search
at deja.com but got a zillion posts I haven't had time to rummage
through. Does anyone have a good
B-Band/installation/clay/whatever/whatever FAQ posted or that they could
email me? Larry Pattis maybe? Others?
I'll be putting all this in an old (early '70s) non-electronic Ovation
Custom Balladeer and a new Larriveé. And as mainly a lurker, thanks for
this and all the other help I've gotten from the group.
Michael
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
From: Larry Pattis <abuse@127...>
Subject: Re: B-Band, Mixpro and other questions
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 09:13:59 -0600
Organization: XMission http://www.xmission.com/
In article <8ec8c5$v1o$<1@nnrp1...>>, <mwpannell@my-deja...> wrote:
> Though I have followed B-Band and other acoustic pickup posts on and off
> for a while, it's now time to start putting it all together and make
> some decisions. Please excuse my naivete, but all this has just become
> very important to me. Can someone help me with info:
>
> 1. Should the B-Band Core 99 system (under-saddle pickup and mic) work
> with the new LR Baggs' Mixpro?
>
> 2. With the powered (?) Mixpro preamp/mixer, can the battery be
> done away with inside the guitar?
>
> 3. Has anyone tried the Mixpro?
>
> 4. And finally (for the moment anyway), regarding B-Band installation
> I've read about the potential string-to-string balance problems and a
> clay solution that seemed to help in various ways. I did a B-Band search
> at deja.com but got a zillion posts I haven't had time to rummage
> through. Does anyone have a good
> B-Band/installation/clay/whatever/whatever FAQ posted or that they could
> email me? Larry Pattis maybe? Others?
>
> I'll be putting all this in an old (early '70s) non-electronic Ovation
> Custom Balladeer and a new Larriveé. And as mainly a lurker, thanks for
> this and all the other help I've gotten from the group.
>
> Michael
Michael,
Remeber that the B-band product that "goes" with their dual-channel
external pre-amp, the Entity (to be able to run without an internal
battery), has a unique internal (to the guitar) pre-amp. Even a regular
Core99 will not function without battery. This may prove to be necessary
information when evaluating the Baggs (or any other) dual-channel pre-amp
product.
THE NEWEST versions of the B-band are a tad thicker than the original, and
it seems that if you've got a good saddle slot, and the ability to make
sure the bottom of your saddle is very flat, these "instructions" become
moot. Even my one "problem child" guitar that required the clay works
perfectly without it now, due to the newest B-band element.
BELOW is an old exchange that I had with John Zyla...I'm asking the
questions, and he is providing the answers.
John Zyla once said to me:
I used Amaco - it's called just that "Self Hardening Clay" . The box will
say "Mexican pottery clay "(red) or "Marblex" (gray) - available in 32 oz
boxes - It's enough to do about a lifetimes worth of saddles, and make
some mini sculptures to boot. I choose red, I don't think it matters.
Product numbers are 48652C (Mexican - red) and 47336w (gray). There will
also be on the shelf small packages of non-hardening clays such as
"Scupley" and others - I don't recommend them as they will not harden.
>2) Is this sort of clay available at "hobby" shops, or do I need to find a
more specialized type store?
If you have a university nearby that has an art department, then at least
one of the bookstores near the university will have an art supplies dept.
That is where you can find it. Otherwise, probably an art supply store.
Best bet is near a university.
>3) How exactly do you fashion the two "layers" of clay, and to what
approximate thickness do the layers need to be?
I tried different methods of getting the clay into the saddle slot, and for
me, the best way is to take a Popsicle stick, and cut one end at about a 20
degree angle, the rougher the better. Then, get a piece of the clay on
between the fingers of one hand, and with the other hand holding the stick,
load the stick with a bit, then sort of "paint" it onto the bottom of the
slot. think of applying spackling to drywall - this seems the best analogy
I can give. I try to work fast as it loses the little moisture it has fast,
in such thin layers, and one needs to have the "sandwich" completed, with
string pressure on it before this happens. I tamp down the stuff with the
Popsicle stick after I have the clay in the slot. As far as layer
thickness, I haven't measured exactly, but it's just really really thin
-think as thin as you can make it and get a solid layer (without holes).
I'm estimating .25 mm or less. I actually leave a bit of open space around
the perimeter (think the "walls" of the saddle slot) so that the stuff will
squish out toward the walls as saddle pressure is applied. This ensures
that I end up with a thinner layer than I could apply by hand.
Pick up a tad of the clay with the stick, then wipe it into the saddle slot
like you are cleaning a peanut butter knife on the edge of the jar lip.
You've done it when you make a sandwich. Same technique. This will leave a
bit of the clay on the side of the saddle slot, inside it. Now, just take
the end of the stick and tamp down. Repeat this till you have tamped down a
nice thin layer. Don't worry if there is a bit of clay color on the saddle,
keep a slightly damp rag handy and it wipes right off.
>4) I suppose that I can use the saddle itself to "tamp" down the first
>layer of clay?
I tried this, and it did not seem to work out. I found the best way was to
use the stick as a tamper. The clay is initially plastic, but not overly
so, so you've got to use some pressure if you use the saddle, Using the
stick allows finer control. Try to get the layer reasonable flat, so the
B-Band won't get deformed when string pressure is applied.
I hope this info is of use to you. You will develop your own style of
applying the clay, and don't be shy to applying it more than once to get
your technique down - you can scrape it right out with the Popsicle stick
once it's in. I experimented a few times before I ever put the B-Band in.
You can even - since this is a new process to you, for experience, just
apply a layer to the saddle slot, put on the saddle, then string up. Then
you can let the clay cure (takes a day or so) and take it apart to look at
how it ended up. In this way you can refine your layer thickness,
technique, etc. I did this and found it helpful.
You will notice when you remove the saddle that it sticks a tiny bit. It's
not glued or anything - there's just a bit of a joint there you have to
separate.
You can also apply a thin layer of the clay between two pieces of wood,
under some pressure (put a cement block on it for a day) and then separate
the pieces of wood to examine the clay once it has hardened. All of this
observation will allow you to predict the behavior of the material and
refine your method before you apply it to the Traugott.
I think the saddle should fit the slot around the edges well, because I
think the clay will tend to powder over time, and you don't want to lose
much of it. The powdering tendency is a good thing (not a negative as one
might think initially) because it tends to improve the contact joint inside
of the sandwich. Think of the sandwich/joint as an organic unit. Does that
sound odd?
Pick up a tad of the clay with the stick, then wipe it into the saddle slot
like you are cleaning a peanut butter knife on the edge of the jar lip.
You've done it when you make a sandwich. Same technique. This will leave a
bit of the clay on the side of the saddle slot, inside it. Now, just take
the end of the stick and tamp down. Repeat this till you have tamped down a
nice thin layer. Don't worry if there is a bit of clay color on the saddle,
keep a slightly damp rag handy and it wipes right off.
Larry Pattis
"Reality is unbelievable"
Lpattis "at" xmission "dot" com
Liberal Palette Records
http://liberalpalette.com
From: John <zylaNOSPAM@joymail...>
Subject: Re: B-Band, Mixpro and other questions
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 05:33:52 GMT
Organization: Newsfeeds.com http://www.newsfeeds.com 73,000+ UNCENSORED Newsgroups.
On Fri, 28 Apr 2000 15:00:38 -0400, Tom Loredo
<<loredo@spacenet...>> wrote:
<snip>
> If there is sufficient interest,
>I'll cut out the Zyla method posts and put them on the web, if John
>agrees to this.
Tom, this is fine to post, I encourage it. I have made one change to
the method, and that is that I mix a bit of "Durhams Water Putty" - in
a toothpaste consistency mix- in with the clay mix, this solves a
problem I experienced with the clay falling apart over time. It just
makes the clay mix harden a bit more. Another advantage is it seems to
lengthen the (wet time) which is good, cause that clay dries pretty
darned fast in such micro thin layers..
One thing to remember about these bedding techniques is that they are
reversible - the clay scrapes right out if you ever need to re-do one,
or want to remove the clay for any reason.
I caution folks to never use an adhesive (glue) in their saddle
slots. I know most readers here know that's a no-no, but I thought I
would mention it in case there are some naive readers who might think
it a good thing to try.
Grace and Peace,
JZ
<snip>
>>
>
>Peace,
>Tom Loredo
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